Hi guys, I really like the sample sentences, but...

I find it annoying that the word that I should be recalling is underlined right next to the box where I am supposed to write it. Maybe you could add a "show sentence" button so that I can look at the sentence after writing the character?

Thanks

Neil pointed out that it does this for writing + tone prompts for multiple-character words. Is that what you're seeing? I'm working on a fix.
http://www.skritter.com/forum/topic?id=47051803&comments=29

Having the same problem, it's pretty annoying and defeats the purpose of trying to recall the words from memory.

It appears on at least writing for me, can you make it an option to turn off?

Oops, I had it broken for non-alpha testers, such that it wouldn't try to do the cloze. Sorry about that! I think I've fixed it--do you see any further issues?

Working great, I really like the sample sentences actually. Having the blank space could be useful at some point, but I still see the context around the sentence with an underline where the word goes.

It'd be nice to just to be able to turn it off till I need to use it, is the possible?

Thank you!

Fixed. Also, have you considered an option to turn off "all" example sentences? I am worried that as I connect the words with the sample sentences, they will begin to work as a prompt. I prefer to learn context elsewhere and use Skritter purely for character recall.

Thanks

Okay, phew. Yes, this is something we've been considering, so I do want more input on whether there should be an option to disable the sentences by default as was discussed in this thread:
http://www.skritter.com/forum/topic?id=47051803&comments=28

Another small problem is still present...

On some words that have 2 or more characters, sometimes after writing the first character, it fills in the remaining characters. The flash catches my eye and then I see the characters for the whole word. This only happens sometimes though.

That is disappointing, like Pharchik said I use skritter mainly for learning vocab and having the context right there next to the word compromises this.

You really should, in my opinion have it either as an option or so it only shows after you've attempted to complete the question and gotten it wrong or right.

cheers nick.
I guess it comes down to deciding if skritter is aiming for world domination, or if it's just a writing program ;P

I didn't mean to sound down, I really like skritter but part of the reason I like it is because it is so customizable.

I'm going to get dinner, please consider making it an option.

Ah, yes. Showing it after would be perfect.

@all Absolutely not, this is one of the main reasons I need the sample sentences! When I got up to items in the 1000s I started to have lots of overlap between items with similar definitions, and the sample sentences provide a fantastic way to distinguish them without looking at the pinyin or the mnemonic.

@michaeb How does having the context compromise your ability to learn vocab? You're better off learning characters in context as soon as possible so you can actually start to use them.

James

pharchik, I think I've fixed two more bugs with it, but I'm getting tired so I'm not sure if I got the one you described. Please report if you see it again.

Nick, thank you for looking into the problem. You guys (skritter team) respond to forum comments so promptly it is like instant messaging.

@jww1066
I understand the importance of learning characters in context, but there are other (more efficient) ways to distinguish similar words. All advanced Chinese textbooks define new words using Chinese definitions and the part of speech. Advanced learners know significantly more than a thousand words and are still able to differentiate similar characters this way. I have yet to use a textbook that gives an example sentence with a blank space to define a word.

That being said, the example sentences can be very useful when learning how to use characters. Before example sentences were available on Skritter, I would do an nciku search (via skritter) to find example sentences of words that I wasn't comfortable using. I would only look up the sentences AFTER writing the character. After I was comfortable with the usage, I wouldn't need to look up the sentences anymore.

Nick, love the example sentences. You guys hit the ball out of the park with this one.

One quibble: on definition questions it's weird to see the sentence at the same time as the prompt. A user, provided their Chinese is strong enough, can look at the sentence and infer the definition from there. This has happened a few times to me already. Because the sentence is there, I look at it--instead of relying on active recognition for the answer.

This is true of reading questions too, though to a lesser extent.

Were you planning to allow users to write these sentences, i.e., turn the sentence itself into a prompt?

Anyway, kudos guys. This is a great addition.

I have something like five words added that mean "but". Part of speech doesn't help to distinguish them.

What exactly are the better ways to which you refer?

A point w/r/t sentence choices. Unlike with definitions and mnemonics, with sentences I don't feel a need to choose a favorite. It's just nice to have a sentence (any sentence) there.

It seems you have a large database of example sentences. Have you thought about displaying sentences at random, rather than locking in specific sentences for each word? We benefit from seeing words in different contexts, so why show the same sentence every time?

@jww1066

I learn the context through reading various texts that are assigned and the readings that I am interested in.

I honestly really like the sample sentences and I'
m not saying get rid of them, I am only saying that there should be an option to enable them or disable them, just like many other features on skritter. I don't think thats unreasonable?

I really like murrayjame's idea too, random sentences would be nice. It all comes down to the fact that I look at these flashcards hundreds of times each as I'm learning. If the same sentence is there each time its possible to just memorize the content of the sentence and infer the word instead of having to recall it from memory, thats not what I want.

Overall I love skritter, I recommend it to classmates and friends and I really appreciate how responsive the dev's are, I just think they should give users the option to choose how and what they want to learn, instead of forcing us to have sentences.

I'm not going to harp on this anymore, best of luck everyone and happy learning!

Brian

Agreed. I think that the sentences are a GREAT addition. I have been using for them the past few hours and have added tons of new words. I just think it would be nice to have the option to hide them until after writing the character.

I think the option to hide the sentences until you have finished writing the character would be a good one. I want to see the sentences, but I'd rather not have any extra hints when writing the character.

It sounds like something similar to the 'hide pinyin' option for sentences will satisfy pretty much everyone? In this way the sentence would pop up automatically after the fact, if the sentence is hidden during prompt. Would that be an issue?

That might well be an issue if it were the only option. I bet some people would want to use the sentence to help figure out what is being asked for.

At least that sort of thinking was why I initially started using example sentences (and still do). I personally wouldn't use auto generated ones for this purpose, but I imagine some will want to.

Then again, I think it's more than hard to use default/unfamiliar sentences for this purpose, so if people did want to use them as such they could always copy it to the custom definitions field. Then again, maybe people thing auto generated ones are perfectly suited. I don't know.

think*

I think part of the issue here is that some people might be working from textbooks which have a restricted set of vocabulary, so they won't have five words for "but". In that case, the part of speech and definition is enough to distinguish the characters. However, once you study a couple of different lists you will start running into things like 可是 但是 不过 etc. Now, in these cases you can show the pinyin or a mnemonic, but that would be a big hint, no? So rather than having a hint in the form of the pinyin or a mnemonic, I would rather have a hint in the form of a sentence, so I know "in THIS sentence I use 可是 instead of 但是 or 不过".

I also don't see what the problem is if you associate a word with a particular sentence. That's how our memories work, they associate related things, and the more connections you make the stronger the memory is. To me it's a huge benefit remembering that 涛 is used in 惊涛骇浪 and that 狼 is used in 狼吞虎咽.

James

The example sentences are absolutely brilliant. I think the option to add words from the example sentence is just fantastic - such a good idea.
Two thumbs up from me on the whole system. This is why I pay a subscription.

Would it be possible to have a list of all the example sentences, with the translations? Or to download them as a text file or something? I'd quite like to add them all into Anki, and doing it as they come up in the prompt is quite slow.

aeriph, it's probably worth being selective with the sentences. 2 of the 3 sentences I showed my teacher she considered "a bit weird" and rewrote them...

Great to see how something works, but not all will be worth rote learning...

Running a poll to try to get at how many people want it each way.

There's already an Anki deck that imported them from the same source we did, through Mnemosyne via Dict.cn. It doesn't have some of the cleanup Maksym did, but that's probably not a big difference for Anki purposes.

A thumbs up for what jww1066 said earlier: "You're better off learning characters in context as soon as possible so you can actually start to use them. "

I wish I had done that from the outset.

The poll doesn't have the option I want - random example sentences rather than a fixed one.

Byzanti, I noticed that as well, which is actually a bit alarming. I have showed a couple ones that I felt were weird to my Chinese friends and they agreed.

All study from books is highly dangerous.
;) You need to check everything with native speakers.

James

@jww1066
Well said. I am currently running through the HSK5 list and using Skritter to ferret out the words I don't already know from it. From there, those words get written down on a notepad. Afterwords, they get emailed to my part time Chinese teacher....

A bit of a headache, but the only way to avoid sounding REALLY WEIRD.

And if you get one native speaker to create an example sentence then show it to another native speaker?
Half the time they will say it's weird.

That's a good point Neil.

Haha that's so true Neil.

One of the key things about Chinese which I wish I had picked up earlier is that almost no one appears to understand anything that's said the first time it's said. It's like there's a handshake and after that it's all good.

So as a learner you say something and someone goes WHAT?! and you think, oh God have I messed it up? Turns out you haven't it's just going to happen anyway :)

@lurks

Sadly, that is very true. All too true:)