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刀/力 recognition

Noqa   November 23rd, 2011 5:17a.m.

Are you guys planning to make Skritter recognize if you've written either 力 or 刀 as a part of a character?

For now it accepts both and I start to realize I'm catching Skritter's bad habit - I don't care if it ends up as 刀 or 力 (more often the latter, it's quicker to scribble)
But my laoshi isn't so happy about that ;-)

nick   November 23rd, 2011 10:43a.m.

It's something we'd have to do a lot of work to make happen, since the stroke recognition engine doesn't take into effect interactions between strokes (like "this stroke must start at least 15% higher than that stroke"). So for now, you'll have to pay attention and catch yourself manually.

GrandPoohBlah   November 23rd, 2011 12:41p.m.

I've found that, the more I learn, the more natural it is to differentiate between the two. In most cases, it simply doesn't make sense to substitute 刀 for 力 or vice-versa. In my opinion, as you write and learn, this habit will correct itself.

pts   November 23rd, 2011 2:02p.m.

I don't think it's so easy. For example, these two 券 and 劵 have tripped up many people.

GrandPoohBlah   November 23rd, 2011 5:14p.m.

Those are two ways of writing the same thing...

juanda2009   November 23rd, 2011 5:37p.m.

i swear there is a difference between the two... the first means tickets and bonds... the second... >.<

jww1066   November 23rd, 2011 10:32p.m.

... waiting for pts to drop some deep science ...

DavidChung   November 24th, 2011 8:22a.m.

It looks like two ways to write the same character to me... What am I missing?

http://www.nciku.com/search/zh/detail/%E5%88%B8/1312438

pts   November 24th, 2011 12:28p.m.

券 [quàn] means tickets or bonds. This one is easy. zdic.net defines 劵 [juàn] as 倦 (tired, exhausted). In the tab 康熙字典, we can find the following:《說文》勞也。《徐曰》今俗作倦。《正字通》與契券之券異。券从刀,此从力。(It is different from the 券 as used in 契券 (carved contract). 券 is related to 刀. This is related to 力.) So, 券 and 劵 are different characters. They have different meanings and pronunciations.

Then in the year 1995, mainland China decreed that one should stop using 劵 (http://www.china-language.gov.cn/wenziguifan/managed/003.htm) .

So, superficially, this is very simply. If one is using simplified characters, just forgets about 劵 and uses only 券 for both 券 and 劵. For those using traditional characters, the distinction should still be clear. Contracts are carved and so requires a knife. 'Tired' is about physical strength. There should be no confusion between them. But in the real world, peoples do not seem to correct themselves and everybody just seem to randomly pick a character.

So I don't think that the students will correct themselves if the laoshis are not doing their jobs properly.

pts   November 24th, 2011 1:07p.m.

@DavidChung nciku is correct in pointing out that 券 is a simplified form of 劵, because 券 now does indeed represent both of the traditional characters 券 and 劵. It only failed to also point out that 劵 have a different reading and meaning to 券.

GrandPoohBlah   November 24th, 2011 4:05p.m.

Thanks, pts! :)

DavidChung   November 25th, 2011 11:51a.m.

Yes, thanks pts, good to know!

jww1066   November 25th, 2011 4:43p.m.

... and once again we are all enlightened by the mighty pts. I particularly like the "knife for carving" mnemonic.

James

pts   November 25th, 2011 7:27p.m.

In the ancient time, contracts were made by inscribing the content on wooden tablets or bamboo slips and then cutting them into halves with each side keeping one half as a proof. So a knife is required. The character 券 was in used much earlier than paper was invented.

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